NMNThe case for TMG (betaine) as a methyl donor with NAD+ precursors: The original paper in Journal of Medical Hypotheses

Fred
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The case for TMG (betaine) as a methyl donor with NAD+ precursors: The original paper in Journal of Medical Hypotheses

Post by Fred » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:45 am

"Co-administration of equimolar doses of betaine may alleviate the hepatotoxic risk associated with niacin therapy"

https://www.freewebs.com/stopped_our_st ... herapy.pdf
Summary
High-dose niacin has versatile and substantial efficacy for the treatment of hyperlipidemias, but its utility is compromised by various side effects, the most serious of which is liver damage. It is proposed that this hepatotoxicity reflects the high demand for methyl groups imposed by niacin catabolism, leading to a reduction in hepatic levels of S-adenosylmethionine (SAM). Depletion of the hepatic SAM pool has likewise been shown to mediate, at least in part, the hepatotoxic effects of ethanol, methotrexate, and niacinamide. If niacin does indeed decrease SAM, a likely consequence would be a counterproductive elevation of plasma homocysteine. Conceivably, methyl group deficiency, by altering membrane properties of skeletal muscle, also contributes to niacin-induced insulin resistance. Concurrent betaine supplementation – preferably administered as a complex with equimolar amounts of niacin – may represent the most cost-effective way to prevent niacin-mediated depletion of SAM and thus avoid hepatotoxicity (and possibly other adverse effects) while controlling homocysteine. Betaine also merits evaluation as an adjuvant to methotrexate and niacinamide therapies.
"Medical Hypotheses is a non-peer reviewed medical journal published by Elsevier. It was originally intended as a forum for unconventional ideas without the traditional filter of scientific peer review, "as long as (the ideas) are coherent and clearly expressed" in order to "foster the diversity and debate upon which the scientific process thrives."


Fred
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Re: The case for TMG (betaine) as a methyl donor with NAD+ precursors: The original paper in Journal of Medical Hypothes

Post by jocko6889 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:37 pm

Hi Fred,

It was good to know that David Sinclair is taking TMG daily as a potential insurance policy to loss of methyl groups. I've been taking about 1 to 1 1/2 grams per day and feel more energized. Most definitely has made a big difference.
Fred
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Re: The case for TMG (betaine) as a methyl donor with NAD+ precursors: The original paper in Journal of Medical Hypothes

Post by Fred » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:38 pm

It was reassuring to see that NR did not raise homocysteine in the latest published human trial but I´m still concerned about methyl depletion affecting endogenous creatine synthesis with high dose of any form of vitamin B3 or its derivatives/metabolites. The dose you cite of TMG alleviates that concern. Although also taking 3-5 g of creatine isn´t such a bad idea anyway to counteract the inevitable loss of muscle strength that follows aging, whether using an NAD+ precursor or not.
Fred
Registered dietitian, Sweden.
Newage
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Re: The case for TMG (betaine) as a methyl donor with NAD+ precursors: The original paper in Journal of Medical Hypothes

Post by Newage » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:45 pm

The natural alternative:
Trimethylglicine( TMG or Betaine )
Beetroot or min 300 ml of pure beetroot juice daily.

Pterostilbene
1 cup or punnet of Blueberries daily.

Fisetin.
1 cup or punnet of Strawberries daily.

All have the higher content of the active ingredients listed above out of all the food groups. And taste good too.
All year round by way of frozen product in the off season.🍓
Don’t forget your cherries 🍒for their great anti inflammatory benefits...
Fred
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Re: The case for TMG (betaine) as a methyl donor with NAD+ precursors: The original paper in Journal of Medical Hypothes

Post by Fred » Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:56 am

I think you are confusing the content of betaine in beetroot juice with the content of betaLAine.

The phenolic betalaine, unrelated to betaine, is abundant in beetroot juice at 0.8-1.3 gram per litre (1).

The highest source of betaine in the US diet, on the other hand, are wheat products (2).

In any case, my post was about supplementing a methyl donor with high dose NAD+ precursors.

Your post, although enthusiastic, is about food sources containing miniscule amounts of fisetin, betaine and pterostilbene.

If you want to change the subject from methyl donors like TMG and talk about food sources of pterostilbene, betaine and fisetin please make a new post or post in the appropriate thread. If everyone starts changing the subjects randomly in threads they will be very hard to follow. Thank you.

1. "Compositional characteristics of commercial beetroot products and beetroot juice prepared from seven beetroot varieties grown in Upper Austria"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7515001003

2. "Betaine in human nutrition"
Stuart AS Craig
The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Volume 80, Issue 3, November 2004, Pages 539–549
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/80/3/539/4690529
Fred
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Newage
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Re: The case for TMG (betaine) as a methyl donor with NAD+ precursors: The original paper in Journal of Medical Hypothes

Post by Newage » Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:01 am

My mistake Fred..
Should have been sugar beets..as per your link.
We are not all dieticians.
Thank you for your comments.
Fred
Posts: 220
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: The case for TMG (betaine) as a methyl donor with NAD+ precursors: The original paper in Journal of Medical Hypothes

Post by Fred » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:51 am

Dietary methyl-consuming compounds and metabolic syndrome


Abstract
The metabolic syndrome, a major risk factor for type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease, is a cluster of metabolic abnormalities including obesity, insulin resistance, hypertension and dyslipidemia. Although systemic oxidative stress and aberrant methylation status are known to have important roles in the development of metabolic syndrome, how they occur remains unclear.

The metabolism of methyl-consuming compounds generates reactive oxygen species and consumes labile methyl groups; therefore, a chronic increase in the levels of methyl-consuming compounds in the body can induce not only oxidative stress and subsequent tissue injury, but also methyl-group pool depletion and subsequent aberrant methylation status.

In the past few decades, the intake amount of methyl-consuming compounds has substantially increased primarily due to pollution, food additives, niacin fortification and high meat consumption.

Thus, increased methyl consumers might have a causal role in the development and prevalence of metabolic syndrome and its related diseases. Moreover, factors that decrease the elimination/metabolism of methyl-consuming compounds and other xenobiotics (for example, sweat gland inactivity and decreased liver function) or increase the generation of endogenous methyl-consuming compounds (for example, mental stress-induced increase in catecholamine release) may accelerate the progression of metabolic syndrome.

Based on current nutrition knowledge and the available evidence from epidemiological, ecological, clinical and laboratory studies on metabolic syndrome and its related diseases, this review outlines the relationship between methyl supply-consumption imbalance and metabolic syndrome, and proposes a novel mechanism for the pathogenesis and prevalence of metabolic syndrome and its related diseases.

https://www.nature.com/articles/hr2011133
Fred
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NewLifeScience
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Re: The case for TMG (betaine) as a methyl donor with NAD+ precursors: The original paper in Journal of Medical Hypothes

Post by NewLifeScience » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:46 am

Newage wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:01 am
My mistake Fred..
Should have been sugar beets..as per your link.
We are not all dieticians.
Thank you for your comments.
I think, well i know that raw beetroot is a potent vaso-dilator... which has proven to be quite handy...

...


...

if you know what i mean.
Taking:
Resveratrol 400mg since June 2019; 600mg since October 1
NMN Sublingual 250mg since june 2019 500mg since September 2019
NAD+ Nasal, appx 100mg per day since September 2019; 200mg per day beginning mid November
canadahealthy
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Re: The case for TMG (betaine) as a methyl donor with NAD+ precursors: The original paper in Journal of Medical Hypothes

Post by canadahealthy » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:52 am

Fred wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:45 am
"Co-administration of equimolar doses of betaine may alleviate the hepatotoxic risk associated with niacin therapy"

https://www.freewebs.com/stopped_our_st ... herapy.pdf
Summary
High-dose niacin has versatile and substantial efficacy for the treatment of hyperlipidemias, but its utility is compromised by various side effects, the most serious of which is liver damage. It is proposed that this hepatotoxicity reflects the high demand for methyl groups imposed by niacin catabolism, leading to a reduction in hepatic levels of S-adenosylmethionine (SAM). Depletion of the hepatic SAM pool has likewise been shown to mediate, at least in part, the hepatotoxic effects of ethanol, methotrexate, and niacinamide. If niacin does indeed decrease SAM, a likely consequence would be a counterproductive elevation of plasma homocysteine. Conceivably, methyl group deficiency, by altering membrane properties of skeletal muscle, also contributes to niacin-induced insulin resistance. Concurrent betaine supplementation – preferably administered as a complex with equimolar amounts of niacin – may represent the most cost-effective way to prevent niacin-mediated depletion of SAM and thus avoid hepatotoxicity (and possibly other adverse effects) while controlling homocysteine. Betaine also merits evaluation as an adjuvant to methotrexate and niacinamide therapies.
"Medical Hypotheses is a non-peer reviewed medical journal published by Elsevier. It was originally intended as a forum for unconventional ideas without the traditional filter of scientific peer review, "as long as (the ideas) are coherent and clearly expressed" in order to "foster the diversity and debate upon which the scientific process thrives."
So is there a straight forward way of getting betaine?
Fred
Posts: 220
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:17 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: The case for TMG (betaine) as a methyl donor with NAD+ precursors: The original paper in Journal of Medical Hypothes

Post by Fred » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:04 pm

You can buy TMG (betaine) as a powder from a reputable GMP brand. It tastes sweet. I just take 2 ml (1 gram) along with 1 g of NMN in the morning and then 0.5 g TMG at dinner.
Fred
Registered dietitian, Sweden.
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